Marcus Petz investigates
How can we develop a universal sign language for all people?
Discussion
Andrius: Theory Translator has an example of the three minds relating gesture (first mind) and speech (second mind). Namely, David McNeill has a book, Hand and Mind: What Gestures Reveal About Thought.
Seen on Facebook
Deaf Mosaic · Stephen Iliffe ·
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- ASTONISHING FIRST DESCRIPTION OF SIGN LANGUAGE - IN 1576 AT LEICESTER WEDDING ***
In another deep-dive into my home city of Leicester's deaf history, here's a story from almost 450 years ago - during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I. ________ On 15th February 1576, St Martin's Church (now Leicester Cathedral) held the wedding of a deaf man Thomas Tillsye and his bride Ursula Russell. As the hand-written entry into the local marriage registry explains: 'Thomas Tillsye and Ursula Russell were marryed: and because Thomas is naturally deafe and also dumbe... for the expression of his minde instead of words [he] used these signs…' Amazingly, the registry then describes the actual signs used by Thomas: 'First he embraced her with his armes, and took her by the hande, putt a ring upon her finger and layde his hande upon her harte, and held his hands towards heaven; and to show his continuance to dwell with her to his lyfes ende he did it by closing of his eyes with his hands and digging out of the earthe with his foote, and pulling as though he would ring a bell, with diverse other signs approved.' ________ At this time, Thomas and Ursula would have no idea that five centuries later, they'd have a such a cherished part in our deaf history. For this is the earliest-known description of individual signs used by British deaf people. Now, plans are being made in Leicester to celebrate next year's 450th anniversary of this remarkable milestone in the history of sign language! Watch this space! ________ Source: Leicestershire Marriages and Banns, Leicester Record Office, Archive ref: DE1564/5. [Image generated by AI to simulate a late 16th-century marriage ceremony with the deaf groom raising his hands towards God.]
Animal languages - more than merely sound also conceptual variation
Writing system like comics - can mime be a language too?
https://thelanguagecloset.com/2024/01/27/the-writing-systems-that-resemble-comics-pt-1/
Kung! signs for animals
https://collections.peabody.harvard.edu/objects/details/781178
Sign using communities
Hand Talk AKA Plain Sign was used by Natives in North America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plains_Indian_Sign_Language
and still is by many. This was used by deaf and hearing communities.
China
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%89%8B%E8%AA%9E
what is interesting is how a universal chinese sign has evolved. Hong Kong Sign is a different language. What is the institutional support like and how does it cope with different sign languages in China.
Gemini and Chat GPT - give different pros and cons on a universal sign language depending on the prompt. They also invent ideas as to why sign is bad for deaf people, even if a sign is universal and not only for deaf.
SOME discussion with the deaf community using these AIs
A hearing friend asked if they can create an universal sign language (I get asked that x100000 times) so I asked ChatGPT for its opinion - now I am quite impressed: It is not a good idea for hearing people to create a universal sign language for Deaf people for several important linguistic, cultural, and ethical reasons: ⸻ 🧠 1. Sign languages are natural languages, not invented codes Sign languages—like American Sign Language (ASL), British Sign Language (BSL), Irish Sign Language (ISL), or Nederlandse Gebarentaal (NGT)—are full, natural languages that have developed organically in Deaf communities over generations. They have their own grammar, syntax, vocabulary, and regional variation, just like spoken languages. Creating a “universal” sign language ignores this natural evolution and imposes an artificial system that lacks cultural and historical grounding. ⸻ 🧏♀️ 2. Deaf communities are culturally and linguistically diverse Just as spoken languages reflect regional identities, histories, and values, so too do sign languages. A universal sign language would erase these differences and contribute to cultural homogenization, potentially marginalizing or silencing local Deaf cultures. This is a form of linguistic imperialism—especially if created by hearing people without Deaf community leadership. ⸻ ⚠️ 3. It would likely be created from a hearing-centric perspective When hearing people create systems “for” Deaf people without involving them, it reproduces ableist and colonial patterns of control. Language is not neutral—designing a language without Deaf epistemology at its center undermines Deaf agency, self-determination, and language rights. ⸻ 🌍 4. It is impractical and unnecessary There are already international sign systems like International Sign (IS), which are used informally in Deaf international spaces (e.g. WFD Congresses, Deaflympics). These are not full languages, but contact varieties used for basic cross-cultural communication. Deaf people are already multilingual and adaptable in international contexts. Creating a “universal” sign language solves no real problem and risks imposing a solution where none is needed. ⸻ 📚 5. It contradicts language rights and Deaf-led research The UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD) recognises the importance of preserving, promoting, and using national sign languages. Pushing a universal system would violate these rights and go against decades of Deaf-led linguistic research and advocacy. ⸻ ✅ In summary: Creating a universal sign language—especially by hearing people—is:
• Linguistically artificial • Culturally erasing • Politically disempowering • Unnecessary and impractical
Instead, empowering and supporting existing sign languages, Deaf-led education, and interpreter access are proven, ethical ways to foster inclusion and equity.
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BECAUSE I just asked CGPT as follows "Why is a universal sign language for deaf people a good idea? ChatGPT said: A universal sign language for deaf people is a good idea for several reasons, especially in terms of communication, inclusion, and accessibility. Here's why: 1. Improved Global Communication Deaf individuals who travel, move abroad, or interact with international communities often face communication barriers due to the existence of hundreds of different national sign languages (e.g., ASL, BSL, LSF). A universal sign language would allow deaf people from different countries to communicate directly, much like spoken English often serves as a global lingua franca. 2. Greater Inclusion in Global Events At international events (like the Olympics, UN meetings, or global forums), a standardized sign language would enable more consistent and inclusive interpretation and participation for deaf individuals from various countries. 3. Simplified Learning and Education Deaf individuals who wish to learn another sign language (for work, study, or travel) would benefit from not needing to learn multiple systems. Hearing people who want to communicate with the deaf community (educators, emergency responders, etc.) could also focus on learning one system. 4. Enhanced Media and Technology Accessibility Sign language content in global media, such as international news or educational platforms, could be made more accessible with a single standard sign language. Tech development (e.g., AI translation, captioning, avatars) would be simpler and more effective if based on one widely accepted standard. 5. Fosters Unity Within the Deaf Community A shared language can strengthen the sense of belonging and solidarity within the global Deaf community. It helps reduce cultural and linguistic isolation between deaf populations in different countries." - and you see its answer. I would more trust an individual making their own argument than CGPT regurgitating one. 2d Reply
Markus Petz It added "A more realistic approach might be promoting a widely taught auxiliary sign language (like an international pidgin or simplified standard) alongside local sign languages, rather than replacing them." Would you like examples of existing attempts, like International Sign?" - and here you can see issues - in the prompt there is nothing about replacing languages, but the caution gives this response. 2d Reply Melissa Mostyn Markus Petz Yes, I do find that when I put the same question to ChatGPT in, say, three different ways, it can prompt three wildly different responses.
Yet none of these look at other languages and see what can happen. So I take for example Chinese - which has one written form and this is used by many different languages that are not mutually intelligible. So a Cantonese speaker cannot understand spoken Mandarin Chinese for example. We could write English with Chinese "signs" and the whole world could adopt that way of writing. MUCH as English has abandoned runes for its writing system and adopted Latin characters. This would create a universal sign system (as in when reading) which could be understood by everyone - now idioms of course would vary - so the Finnish phrase tehdä kärpäsestä härkänen - literally to make a fly from an ox - or idiomatically in English make a mountain out of a mole hill. Both could be rendered in a possible International sign - perhaps in a way that the idioms vary yet the sign is the same. Now imagine if a powerful country such as China controlled the standard for international sign. They mighty very well teach and require ONLY one interpretation is possible. This is what they have done with spoken Chinese -you will find it difficult to see Cantonese being taught and instead everyone is being encouraged (forced) to speak only Mandarin. Try and find some books that teach you Cantonese which are modern. I don't say there are none, but few. Similarly Russia requires every publication to be replicated in Russian. AND in the UK it was illegal to broadcast in any language except English - this included Welsh in Wales! So if an international sign is developed who should control it? How should the sovereignty of the language be assured? Is it better that deaf people with a linguistic and cultural diversity perspective do that or that hearing people alone from an authoritarian state? So if they are going to do this would you not want a free culture of users already in existence?
n the 1950s, the China Welfare Association for the Deaf published the "Draft of the Universal Sign Language for the Deaf" (four volumes), and began to standardize sign language . [ 7 ] In 1979, the "Draft of the Universal Sign Language for the Deaf" was revised into the "Atlas of the Universal Sign Language for the Deaf" [ 7 ] . In 1987, the "Atlas of the Universal Sign Language for the Deaf" was renamed "Chinese Sign Language" [ 7 ] . In 1990, "Chinese Sign Language", compiled by the Education and Employment Department of the China Disabled Persons' Federation and the China Deaf Association , was published as a standard reference book for Chinese sign language. A sequel was released in 1994 [ 7 ] . On July 18, 2010, the National Sign Language and Braille Research Center was established at Beijing Normal University . [ 8 ] In 2017, the National Common Sign Language Dictionary was published as a language standard and officially took effect on July 1 of the same year. This vocabulary list has unified standards for the national anthem, text, grammatical features of sign language, Chinese pinyin syllables and strokes, so that the deaf have a set of "legal" language references . [ 9 ] In May 2018, the National Common Sign Language Vocabulary was reviewed by the Standard Review Committee of the National Language and Script Working Committee, and was approved by the China Disabled Persons' Federation, the Ministry of Education and the National Language and Script Working Committee. It was published as a language standard and implemented from July 1, 2018. [ 10 ] [ 11 ] It is said that the vocabulary of this national common sign language has reduced the number of words that are translated literally into Chinese characters and increased the hand gestures that the hearing-impaired are accustomed to, reduced the use of sign language letters representing pinyin letters, and included some non-interchangeable sign language dialects from different parts of China . [ 12 ]" https://zh.wikipedia.org/.../%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E6%89%8B...
don’t understand why hearing people would creatie a sign language for draf people? Deaf people also don’t create spoken or any other languages for hearing people 🙈 In the past we saw more then enough about hearing people creating communication systems for deaf and forcing them into….
Visual sign language of signs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_nuclear_waste_warning_messages
Cross over restricted languages of visual signs and sounds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_sign_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makaton
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement_hand_signals (these were taken from others in protest movements)
related to oralism